How/Why the Evil Queen became evil (no real spoilers, just the teasy promise that the question will be answered soon):
http://www.tvguide.com/News/Once-Upon-Time-Lana-Parrilla-1041311.aspx
One thing is clear, the Mayor isn’t going to be brought down anytime soon. The long-term arc of the show is about her defeat. But hopefully the background reveals will make her a bit more gray than black and white.
How the TV show Lost influenced OUAT’s fairytale world:
http://www.tvguide.com/News/Once-Upon-Time-Horowitz-Kitsis-1040425.aspx
“We never thought about Lost or Once really as mythology shows, even though mythology obviously is a part of [both]. They are character shows to us. “
Sounds like they’re developing a mythology for the show through both the actual text of fairy tales and their own development of the characters as both fairy tale characters and modern people. Storybrooke is the Island where they are trapped, and the people in it are gradually revealed through non-linear flashbacks.
So far, I trust what they’re doing, and where they might go. If it’s anything like Lost, it should be a twisty, turny ride.
Author Nancy E. Shaffer 
I love the way the show moves from our world to the fairy tale world so seamlessly.
I think the whole show would benefit from having Regina a little grayer, because to me the best villains are the ones who have convinced themselves that they’re really the good guys.
I love the way the show moves from our world to the fairy tale world so seamlessly.
I think the whole show would benefit from having Regina a little grayer, because to me the best villains are the ones who have convinced themselves that they’re really the good guys.
because to me the best villains are the ones who have convinced themselves that they’re really the good guys.
Yes, that’s exactly what they need to do. So I am hoping to see more about her.
because to me the best villains are the ones who have convinced themselves that they’re really the good guys.
Yes, that’s exactly what they need to do. So I am hoping to see more about her.
Hee, I went hunting for Once spoilers a little while ago for some of the same reasons.
Found out Amy Acker is popping up in a role somewhere…no clue what. And they’ve cast the evil Queen’s mother for next season. Also a bit more will be revealed on the mysterious writer guy.
It definitely has the same narrative structure/framework as Lost, except everyone is stuck in an isolated community in the real world – with just a few characters having the ability to leave the community, while the magical world – the one they’ve forgotten, is the one that is the end goal to return to.
Agree on evil queen – I keep hoping they’ll give her some shades of gray or waiting fro her to be defeated is going to get old fast. Right now Morgana on Merlin is more complex (last week’s Merlin – His Father’s Son – was really good.)
Hee, I went hunting for Once spoilers a little while ago for some of the same reasons.
Found out Amy Acker is popping up in a role somewhere…no clue what. And they’ve cast the evil Queen’s mother for next season. Also a bit more will be revealed on the mysterious writer guy.
It definitely has the same narrative structure/framework as Lost, except everyone is stuck in an isolated community in the real world – with just a few characters having the ability to leave the community, while the magical world – the one they’ve forgotten, is the one that is the end goal to return to.
Agree on evil queen – I keep hoping they’ll give her some shades of gray or waiting fro her to be defeated is going to get old fast. Right now Morgana on Merlin is more complex (last week’s Merlin – His Father’s Son – was really good.)
Season 4 of Merlin, I can say without being much spoilery, since it’s obvious by now, is Arthur’s season, narratively, about his coming into his own as a king. Morgana must also learn to stand alone without her mentor (Morgause).
Right now, OUAT is establishing the characters, and that sort of makes it necessary to establish the Mayor/Queen as the villain, so that’s clear (if it were not already clear by our knowledge of fairy tale tropes), before they muddy the waters a bit. One thing that was definitely true of Lost: the “bad guys”, like Ben and Widmore were gray as hell.
I think the Mayor/Queen’s (I really need to learn her name) one shade of gray, so far, is her love for Henry. I do think in her own misguided way, she loves him, and it’s no coincidence the boy bears her father’s name, because he’s the one person in the Fairy Tale world she actually loved, even though ultimately, she sacrificed him to gain something she valued more.
Season 4 of Merlin, I can say without being much spoilery, since it’s obvious by now, is Arthur’s season, narratively, about his coming into his own as a king. Morgana must also learn to stand alone without her mentor (Morgause).
Right now, OUAT is establishing the characters, and that sort of makes it necessary to establish the Mayor/Queen as the villain, so that’s clear (if it were not already clear by our knowledge of fairy tale tropes), before they muddy the waters a bit. One thing that was definitely true of Lost: the “bad guys”, like Ben and Widmore were gray as hell.
I think the Mayor/Queen’s (I really need to learn her name) one shade of gray, so far, is her love for Henry. I do think in her own misguided way, she loves him, and it’s no coincidence the boy bears her father’s name, because he’s the one person in the Fairy Tale world she actually loved, even though ultimately, she sacrificed him to gain something she valued more.
I think the Mayor/Queen’s (I really need to learn her name)
Regina is the only name we have to date. They are planning on developing her further…they’ve cast her mom. (Not sure how you feel about casting spoilers? I know who they cast as her mom, and who they’ve cast as Cassie’s dad on Secret History. Regina’s mom is a more interesting casting choice – but Once clearly has more money.)
Right now, OUAT is establishing the characters, and that sort of makes it necessary to establish the Mayor/Queen as the villain
True. But I think we know she’s evil by now.;-) What they need to do is make her less of a bwahahhah evil villain. I need to care about her – like I did Ben in Lost. The villian you love to hate, as opposed to the villain you just wish would go away …LOL! (right now Rumplestilskin fits the gray villain or Ben-like villain character. Actually, I’m wondering if Widmark/Ben is going to be similar to Regina/Mr. Gold – villains who are adversaries. Which works really well.)
Oh speaking of Widmark – did you notice the same actor’s been playing James/Prince Charming’s nasty adoptive father? With Espenson and the Lost writers on this show…expect to see a lot of cameos by actors from those writers past series.
I think the Mayor/Queen’s (I really need to learn her name)
Regina is the only name we have to date. They are planning on developing her further…they’ve cast her mom. (Not sure how you feel about casting spoilers? I know who they cast as her mom, and who they’ve cast as Cassie’s dad on Secret History. Regina’s mom is a more interesting casting choice – but Once clearly has more money.)
Right now, OUAT is establishing the characters, and that sort of makes it necessary to establish the Mayor/Queen as the villain
True. But I think we know she’s evil by now.;-) What they need to do is make her less of a bwahahhah evil villain. I need to care about her – like I did Ben in Lost. The villian you love to hate, as opposed to the villain you just wish would go away …LOL! (right now Rumplestilskin fits the gray villain or Ben-like villain character. Actually, I’m wondering if Widmark/Ben is going to be similar to Regina/Mr. Gold – villains who are adversaries. Which works really well.)
Oh speaking of Widmark – did you notice the same actor’s been playing James/Prince Charming’s nasty adoptive father? With Espenson and the Lost writers on this show…expect to see a lot of cameos by actors from those writers past series.
Yes, and the actress who played Claire on Lost is going to be making a cameo soon (next week?).
I think Amy Acker’s latest TV appearance will be on Grimm.
Yes, and the actress who played Claire on Lost is going to be making a cameo soon (next week?).
I think Amy Acker’s latest TV appearance will be on Grimm.
So yes, as in casting spoilers are “spoilers” you want to avoid?
So yes, as in casting spoilers are “spoilers” you want to avoid?
I don’t want plot spoilers, but casting spoilers don’t particularly bug me. I am not as mental about them as I was in the case of BtVS/AtS.
In the case of the Secret Circle, I was actually pleased when I heard it.
I don’t want plot spoilers, but casting spoilers don’t particularly bug me. I am not as mental about them as I was in the case of BtVS/AtS.
In the case of the Secret Circle, I was actually pleased when I heard it.
Well, to be fair, ATs and BTVs casting spoilers were plot spoilers (ie. Juliet Landau was coming back or James Marsters after they’d left the canvas…), so were some of LOST’s towards the later seasons (ie. Elizabeth Mitchell (Juliet) was returning after she died on-screen). It’s too early in the arc for Once or Secret Circle to have real casting-plot spoilers. (well, except if we heard the Sheriff was coming back. I suppose you could say that the father had been cast was a spoiler that he’s still alive…but you can do flashbacks and when we got the spoiler? We already knew he was still alive.)
I can tell you Barbara Hershey has been cast to play a re-curring role in Once, and I’ve heard Amy Acker will play some role or other…but that’s hardly a spoiler.
Mixed feelings about Joe Lando as Dad, I keep seeing Sully from Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman in my head. LOL!
Well, to be fair, ATs and BTVs casting spoilers were plot spoilers (ie. Juliet Landau was coming back or James Marsters after they’d left the canvas…), so were some of LOST’s towards the later seasons (ie. Elizabeth Mitchell (Juliet) was returning after she died on-screen). It’s too early in the arc for Once or Secret Circle to have real casting-plot spoilers. (well, except if we heard the Sheriff was coming back. I suppose you could say that the father had been cast was a spoiler that he’s still alive…but you can do flashbacks and when we got the spoiler? We already knew he was still alive.)
I can tell you Barbara Hershey has been cast to play a re-curring role in Once, and I’ve heard Amy Acker will play some role or other…but that’s hardly a spoiler.
Mixed feelings about Joe Lando as Dad, I keep seeing Sully from Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman in my head. LOL!
See, I would not have wanted the father casting spoiler on secret circle before I saw the episode where they revealed he was still alive. Afterwards, though, the spoiler was welcome because it confirmed the reveal wasn’t a fake-out.
See, I would not have wanted the father casting spoiler on secret circle before I saw the episode where they revealed he was still alive. Afterwards, though, the spoiler was welcome because it confirmed the reveal wasn’t a fake-out.
Oh, I agree. Was very glad I didn’t get it until the episode where we saw the father survived. I like to guess.
The only time I search out spoilers is when I get worried about the story-line and don’t like my guesses or become overly invested in my guesses and want to ensure I’m right. (which happens with a lot of soap operas. Except the problem with soap operas is even the spoilers aren’t reliable, because the writer’s change their minds in mid-stream. Revenge right now is a great example of that. I’ve no clue what they are going to do. They changed their minds in mid-stream. Same thing happened with Angel and Buffy.)
Oh, I agree. Was very glad I didn’t get it until the episode where we saw the father survived. I like to guess.
The only time I search out spoilers is when I get worried about the story-line and don’t like my guesses or become overly invested in my guesses and want to ensure I’m right. (which happens with a lot of soap operas. Except the problem with soap operas is even the spoilers aren’t reliable, because the writer’s change their minds in mid-stream. Revenge right now is a great example of that. I’ve no clue what they are going to do. They changed their minds in mid-stream. Same thing happened with Angel and Buffy.)
I can’t imagine shows like AtS or BtVS changing their minds very often, given the tightness of production schedules. Daytime soaps have the luxury of changing story lines as the actors are stepping in front of the camera (did you ever see the movie “Soap Dish”?).
Arcy dramas like AtS and BtVS would fall apart if they did stuff like that.
I can’t imagine shows like AtS or BtVS changing their minds very often, given the tightness of production schedules. Daytime soaps have the luxury of changing story lines as the actors are stepping in front of the camera (did you ever see the movie “Soap Dish”?).
Arcy dramas like AtS and BtVS would fall apart if they did stuff like that.
And yet they did. I’ve read A LOT of interviews. Apparently, they had a tight arc in S4 with Lindsey Crouse, but at the last minute she notified them she was leaving – they didn’t get her on contract, the fools. So they had to re-write the arc. In S2 – they planned to kill off Spike, but changed their mind around mid-season, because the character was so popular. In Angel – they planned to do more with Darla and Lindsey in S2 and S3, but both actors left for other projects, so we got the Pylea arc. They managed to get Darla back but not Lindsey and used Lilah instead. In S3 – they had an arc in which Cordelia would be the big bad, but Charisma got pregnant which destroyed the arc. In S4 – S7 they had an arc about Oz and Willow, Tara was supposed to be a passing fling, an experiment, and OZ would die in S6 causing Willow to go dark. But Seth Green left, so they had to re-write it. In S7 – they planned to bring Tara back, and tease us with her as the First Evil, they also were planning on using Jenny Calendar – neither actress was available. In S3 and S4 they planned on Spike and Dru returning, but Juliet wasn’t available. It goes on.
What we saw on-screen was not the story planned. In some ways I prefer what they came up with better. Although I’m still annoyed that Jenny Calendar couldn’t play the First with Giles in S7 because that would have been cool.
And yet they did. I’ve read A LOT of interviews. Apparently, they had a tight arc in S4 with Lindsey Crouse, but at the last minute she notified them she was leaving – they didn’t get her on contract, the fools. So they had to re-write the arc. In S2 – they planned to kill off Spike, but changed their mind around mid-season, because the character was so popular. In Angel – they planned to do more with Darla and Lindsey in S2 and S3, but both actors left for other projects, so we got the Pylea arc. They managed to get Darla back but not Lindsey and used Lilah instead. In S3 – they had an arc in which Cordelia would be the big bad, but Charisma got pregnant which destroyed the arc. In S4 – S7 they had an arc about Oz and Willow, Tara was supposed to be a passing fling, an experiment, and OZ would die in S6 causing Willow to go dark. But Seth Green left, so they had to re-write it. In S7 – they planned to bring Tara back, and tease us with her as the First Evil, they also were planning on using Jenny Calendar – neither actress was available. In S3 and S4 they planned on Spike and Dru returning, but Juliet wasn’t available. It goes on.
What we saw on-screen was not the story planned. In some ways I prefer what they came up with better. Although I’m still annoyed that Jenny Calendar couldn’t play the First with Giles in S7 because that would have been cool.
In my defense? I’m incredibly fascinated by the process of creating a television series or film – so compulsively seek out anything I can find that provides info on the process. I could care less about who marries who or personal stuff, but how they wrote it, challenges they faced, actor issues, backstage stuff, stunts? That fascinates me.
In my defense? I’m incredibly fascinated by the process of creating a television series or film – so compulsively seek out anything I can find that provides info on the process. I could care less about who marries who or personal stuff, but how they wrote it, challenges they faced, actor issues, backstage stuff, stunts? That fascinates me.
None of those sound like last, last minute changes except the Lindsey Crouch thing. More like changes in the early planning of seasonal arcs, or casting of episodes before filming.
None of those sound like last, last minute changes except the Lindsey Crouch thing. More like changes in the early planning of seasonal arcs, or casting of episodes before filming.
Oh, I love it, too, but usually not while the show is going on, as that sort of messes with my suspension of disbelief thing. But later, on the DVD extras, or in books, magazine articles, long after the fact? Eat it for breakfast.
Oh, I love it, too, but usually not while the show is going on, as that sort of messes with my suspension of disbelief thing. But later, on the DVD extras, or in books, magazine articles, long after the fact? Eat it for breakfast.
I never did it while the show was on…okay with the exception of the last two seasons of both shows, where I kept getting spoiled by well-meaning friends. Dochawk and CJL spoiled me on Buffy S7 and Angel S4 rather I wanted to be or not. And Doc had the inside story on all things Angel, since his best bud was Greenie’s production assistant.
I never did it while the show was on…okay with the exception of the last two seasons of both shows, where I kept getting spoiled by well-meaning friends. Dochawk and CJL spoiled me on Buffy S7 and Angel S4 rather I wanted to be or not. And Doc had the inside story on all things Angel, since his best bud was Greenie’s production assistant.
Well, both the Spike arc and the OZ arc were similar to Lindsey Crouse bit, as were Christian Kane and Julie Benze taking off (or did you think Pylea was planned? Really not – they pulled that out of their hats). I also think Amber Bensen telling Whedon she refused to return – at the last minute for Conversations with Dead People – threw them off (you can sort of tell). Plus the whole Wood storyline? Espenson came up with that while writing First Date. They didn’t know before then (which explains the clunkiness of that story as well.) They did a good job of covering it up. But they did change their minds at the last minute. Xander was initially supposed to die in either First Date or Dirty Girls and reappear as the First – they changed their mind – the writers talked Whedon out of it.
Well, both the Spike arc and the OZ arc were similar to Lindsey Crouse bit, as were Christian Kane and Julie Benze taking off (or did you think Pylea was planned? Really not – they pulled that out of their hats). I also think Amber Bensen telling Whedon she refused to return – at the last minute for Conversations with Dead People – threw them off (you can sort of tell). Plus the whole Wood storyline? Espenson came up with that while writing First Date. They didn’t know before then (which explains the clunkiness of that story as well.) They did a good job of covering it up. But they did change their minds at the last minute. Xander was initially supposed to die in either First Date or Dirty Girls and reappear as the First – they changed their mind – the writers talked Whedon out of it.
Good Lord, no, I knew about the Julie Benz bail in Season 2 of AtS. Season 3 made up for Pylea for me, which was Lame-o.
Really glad they didn’t do the “friend of yours goes evil” trope *again* with Xander. That was effective the first time, tedious the second time, and after that, Get A New Theme.
Good Lord, no, I knew about the Julie Benz bail in Season 2 of AtS. Season 3 made up for Pylea for me, which was Lame-o.
Really glad they didn’t do the “friend of yours goes evil” trope *again* with Xander. That was effective the first time, tedious the second time, and after that, Get A New Theme.
Your icon is about the only thing I liked about Pylea. So happy I wasn’t the only one less than thrilled with that arc. Found it lame as all get out. But fandom seems to adore it for some reason – maybe because of the dance of numfar?
If Benze was the only one who bailed, wouldn’t have been a problem.
But Kane did too. (In their defense – Fox refused to put them under contract and Whedon refused to guarantee they had a job. So they took what came. Need to make a living and all that. I think they both did straight to video movies.)
I confess, that Benze has turned out to be the most versatile of both casts. She’s done the widest range of work, and I often don’t recognize her. She was in Prime Suspect recently.
And agreed. I’m glad the writers talked Whedon out of doing yet another friend goes evil or dies arc. (You can tell he was getting burned out at that point.) Now if only someone had talked him out of making Cordelia the big bad…
Your icon is about the only thing I liked about Pylea. So happy I wasn’t the only one less than thrilled with that arc. Found it lame as all get out. But fandom seems to adore it for some reason – maybe because of the dance of numfar?
If Benze was the only one who bailed, wouldn’t have been a problem.
But Kane did too. (In their defense – Fox refused to put them under contract and Whedon refused to guarantee they had a job. So they took what came. Need to make a living and all that. I think they both did straight to video movies.)
I confess, that Benze has turned out to be the most versatile of both casts. She’s done the widest range of work, and I often don’t recognize her. She was in Prime Suspect recently.
And agreed. I’m glad the writers talked Whedon out of doing yet another friend goes evil or dies arc. (You can tell he was getting burned out at that point.) Now if only someone had talked him out of making Cordelia the big bad…
Angel/Angelus was chilling and effective. But Cordelia, Willow, Fred….
C’mon, Joss, do you have Friendship Issues?
Angel/Angelus was chilling and effective. But Cordelia, Willow, Fred….
C’mon, Joss, do you have Friendship Issues?
C’mon, Joss, do you have Friendship Issues?
Amongst other issues…;-)
There is admittedly a discernible pattern. All the “female” friends get taken over/tempted by magical powers and turn “evil” because of them or are just killed. (Cordelia, Anya, Willow, Fred, Tara).Either that or impregnated (Cordy, (Buffy if you read the comics), Darla). He seems to have a thing for ‘the Rosemary’s Baby’ horror trope. (Although Darla was arguably a subversion of that trope and the only pregnancy in the show (or comics) that worked for me.)
C’mon, Joss, do you have Friendship Issues?
Amongst other issues…;-)
There is admittedly a discernible pattern. All the “female” friends get taken over/tempted by magical powers and turn “evil” because of them or are just killed. (Cordelia, Anya, Willow, Fred, Tara).Either that or impregnated (Cordy, (Buffy if you read the comics), Darla). He seems to have a thing for ‘the Rosemary’s Baby’ horror trope. (Although Darla was arguably a subversion of that trope and the only pregnancy in the show (or comics) that worked for me.)